I am new to this space. Can one of you please explain why so many adults are so obsessed with the gender and sexuality of other people’s children? If it’s not your child, why are you personally affected? It’s a real question. Just trying to understand everyone’s motivation.
Well, we wouldn’t be affected if we were not compelled to use preferred pronouns and act as if we believe that sex is not real, immutable and important. Women and girls wouldn’t be affected if they were not required to share their spaces with males without giving consent. Female athletes wouldn’t be affected if they didn’t have to compete against males on their female sports teams. Medical and social science research wouldn’t be affected if the collection of data was based on sex and not gender identity. Society as a whole wouldn’t be affected if long established legal and policy protections were not undermined by prioritizing gender identity over sex.
But most importantly: when you see that children are being lied to when they are told that they could have been born in the wrong body, or that it is possible to change sex; when you hear children being told that they will commit suicide if their “gender identity” is not affirmed; when you know that there is no positive evidence base for risky, experimental medical interventions with know harmful consequences; when you learn that serious psychological and emotional factors are ignored; or when you realize that lesbian and gay teens are being convinced by homophobic parents, teachers, gender therapists and doctors to deny their same sex attraction - then, I would hope, even if these children are not your children, that you would care enough to speak out and express your concerns and hope for constructive dialogue and investigation and not name calling, and “no debate” and threats and physical attacks.
We are not obsessed. We are concerned citizens, parents, teachers, doctors, lawyers, feminists, and members of the LGB community who want children to be free to express themselves however they wish and to be able to name the reality of their experience without having an ideological or political agenda imposed upon them.
Well said, ma4women. I'm a staunch liberal who also sees "gender affirming care" as a profit-driven medical scandal -- soon to be relegated, along with lobotomies, to a particularly gruesome chapter in The Utterly Discredited Quack Treatments of History.
Did you know that Hillary Cass consulted with none other than Patrick Hunt, Ron DeSantis' architect of the Florida Review? Talk about having an "ideological or political agenda"! IF you are truly concerned about the welfare of children, I HIGHLY encourage you to take beat, do A LOT more reading and research, and TRULY think about how you can be helpful instead of being a weapon of further destruction of human rights. You could start here: https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/integrity-project_cass-response.pdf
The fact that you think children are being lied to or told they could have been born in the wrong body or told they will commit suicide if their gender identity is not affirmed shows that you have no direct experience with what it's like to be or have a trans kid or support trans kids directly. There is no political or institutional agenda! For real; it's madness to think there's some sort of trans kid conspiracy going on. Are there specific people who have had specific experiences? Of course, but that does not point to any across-the-board movement to "turn kids trans." That's honestly so frustrating to hear. If you are truly concerned, then please consider being open to learning from someone who has direct experience. I am open to those conversations.
In general, I appreciate that people are "concerned citizens." I have also been a concerned, active citizen for decades, but when I see you posting articles that precipitate comments calling for medical professionals who are trying to help young people be "jailed for life," then I know this space is not about being concerned. It's about pushing your ideology and calling for violence and silencing of people who have dissenting opinions. You are not listening and learning and finding a way to support trans kids. You are shaming and silencing and erasing the very existence of trans kids. How is that showing concern?
The thing I find most fascinating is that this approach uses the same tactics that have historically been used to persecute women and marginalize people of color and others in the LGBTQ+ community. You are cherry picking your evidence to prove your "points" without acknowledge alternative perspectives or ways of thinking. Such a thing is not helpful for anyone and does not demonstrate concern.
But there is no such thing as a “trans kid”. That is an ideological designation; ie a lie. A fiction. There are gender non-conforming kids, 9/10 of whom will grow up to be gay or lesbian. The mutilation of these children’s healthy bodies is a medical scandal, no matter how righteous the people involved think they are, and therefore it is not unreasonable to expect, and to hope for, custodial punishment. Nobody thinks they are the villain, that’s human nature, but try to step back and look at the facts: children have been mutilated because of a fantastical ideology that makes no sense and has no evidence supporting it.
It’s hard to accept when one has made a profound mistake in judgement. I can only try to imagine how much harder it would be to accept that one has been complicit in the mutilation and destruction of one’s own child… perhaps impossible.
Gnome Chomsky. I am the parent of a trans young adult, and have worked for 30 years as a pediatric NP, the last 10 in an adolescent clinic that was part of a pediatric training program. Your experience is not the only experience. If you would like to hear my experience, and talk about how I see future pediatricians being trained, perhaps it will help you understand why people are being pushed hard to the right on this issue. Gender non-conforming children and young adults deserve good care and accurate information. They are not routinely getting it.
Just seeing your response, Gnome Chomsky. Thank you. Yes, I’ve read portions of it. And I’ve read every article on pediatric gender medicine cited in WPATHs SOC8, and countless other articles in both the scientific and lay press. One can make a case for offering pediatric transition care, but one can’t make a case for the way I see the evidence base being mis-represented. We have not followed kids for more than about 2 years from the initiation of cross sex hormones, and we have not attempted to tease out the effects of behavioral health interventions - often provided concurrently - from medical transition. Among other issues. Patients and their families have a right to know this. But we are not even being honest about this within the medical community, let alone counseling families accurately.
This is excellent. I have Restacked.
Thank you. This is the rebuttal to “Strict Scrutiny” podcast promoting gender interventions.
I am new to this space. Can one of you please explain why so many adults are so obsessed with the gender and sexuality of other people’s children? If it’s not your child, why are you personally affected? It’s a real question. Just trying to understand everyone’s motivation.
Well, we wouldn’t be affected if we were not compelled to use preferred pronouns and act as if we believe that sex is not real, immutable and important. Women and girls wouldn’t be affected if they were not required to share their spaces with males without giving consent. Female athletes wouldn’t be affected if they didn’t have to compete against males on their female sports teams. Medical and social science research wouldn’t be affected if the collection of data was based on sex and not gender identity. Society as a whole wouldn’t be affected if long established legal and policy protections were not undermined by prioritizing gender identity over sex.
But most importantly: when you see that children are being lied to when they are told that they could have been born in the wrong body, or that it is possible to change sex; when you hear children being told that they will commit suicide if their “gender identity” is not affirmed; when you know that there is no positive evidence base for risky, experimental medical interventions with know harmful consequences; when you learn that serious psychological and emotional factors are ignored; or when you realize that lesbian and gay teens are being convinced by homophobic parents, teachers, gender therapists and doctors to deny their same sex attraction - then, I would hope, even if these children are not your children, that you would care enough to speak out and express your concerns and hope for constructive dialogue and investigation and not name calling, and “no debate” and threats and physical attacks.
We are not obsessed. We are concerned citizens, parents, teachers, doctors, lawyers, feminists, and members of the LGB community who want children to be free to express themselves however they wish and to be able to name the reality of their experience without having an ideological or political agenda imposed upon them.
Well said, ma4women. I'm a staunch liberal who also sees "gender affirming care" as a profit-driven medical scandal -- soon to be relegated, along with lobotomies, to a particularly gruesome chapter in The Utterly Discredited Quack Treatments of History.
Did you know that Hillary Cass consulted with none other than Patrick Hunt, Ron DeSantis' architect of the Florida Review? Talk about having an "ideological or political agenda"! IF you are truly concerned about the welfare of children, I HIGHLY encourage you to take beat, do A LOT more reading and research, and TRULY think about how you can be helpful instead of being a weapon of further destruction of human rights. You could start here: https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/integrity-project_cass-response.pdf
Guilt by association is unconvincing as is the “Yale” Report.
Sex-Based rights, child safeguarding and evidenced based medical treatments do not conflict with, diminish, or destroy anyone’s human rights.
Article 1 Right to Equality
Article 2 Freedom from Discrimination
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Article 4 Freedom from Salvery
Article 5 Freedom from Torture and Degrading Treatment
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Article 8 Right to Remedy by competent Tribunal
Article 9 Freedom from Arbitrary Arrest and Exile
Article 10 Right to Fair Public Hearing
Article 11 Right to be Considered Innocent until Proven Guilty
Article 12 Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and
Correspondence
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Article 30 Freedom from State or Personal Interference in the above Rights
For the full text of the Universal Declaration on Human rights see: https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights
The fact that you think children are being lied to or told they could have been born in the wrong body or told they will commit suicide if their gender identity is not affirmed shows that you have no direct experience with what it's like to be or have a trans kid or support trans kids directly. There is no political or institutional agenda! For real; it's madness to think there's some sort of trans kid conspiracy going on. Are there specific people who have had specific experiences? Of course, but that does not point to any across-the-board movement to "turn kids trans." That's honestly so frustrating to hear. If you are truly concerned, then please consider being open to learning from someone who has direct experience. I am open to those conversations.
In general, I appreciate that people are "concerned citizens." I have also been a concerned, active citizen for decades, but when I see you posting articles that precipitate comments calling for medical professionals who are trying to help young people be "jailed for life," then I know this space is not about being concerned. It's about pushing your ideology and calling for violence and silencing of people who have dissenting opinions. You are not listening and learning and finding a way to support trans kids. You are shaming and silencing and erasing the very existence of trans kids. How is that showing concern?
The thing I find most fascinating is that this approach uses the same tactics that have historically been used to persecute women and marginalize people of color and others in the LGBTQ+ community. You are cherry picking your evidence to prove your "points" without acknowledge alternative perspectives or ways of thinking. Such a thing is not helpful for anyone and does not demonstrate concern.
Anyway. It's just a thought.
But there is no such thing as a “trans kid”. That is an ideological designation; ie a lie. A fiction. There are gender non-conforming kids, 9/10 of whom will grow up to be gay or lesbian. The mutilation of these children’s healthy bodies is a medical scandal, no matter how righteous the people involved think they are, and therefore it is not unreasonable to expect, and to hope for, custodial punishment. Nobody thinks they are the villain, that’s human nature, but try to step back and look at the facts: children have been mutilated because of a fantastical ideology that makes no sense and has no evidence supporting it.
It’s hard to accept when one has made a profound mistake in judgement. I can only try to imagine how much harder it would be to accept that one has been complicit in the mutilation and destruction of one’s own child… perhaps impossible.
You are so ill-informed I don't even know where to begin. You could stop by vomiting out the right-wing nonsense about children being mutilated.
Gnome Chomsky. I am the parent of a trans young adult, and have worked for 30 years as a pediatric NP, the last 10 in an adolescent clinic that was part of a pediatric training program. Your experience is not the only experience. If you would like to hear my experience, and talk about how I see future pediatricians being trained, perhaps it will help you understand why people are being pushed hard to the right on this issue. Gender non-conforming children and young adults deserve good care and accurate information. They are not routinely getting it.
Thank you for your reasonable response and invitation! I'm wondering if you've read this report: https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/integrity-project_cass-response.pdf
It's in response to the Cass Review, which Karen Bercovici uses as "truth" in her column posted by the OP
Just seeing your response, Gnome Chomsky. Thank you. Yes, I’ve read portions of it. And I’ve read every article on pediatric gender medicine cited in WPATHs SOC8, and countless other articles in both the scientific and lay press. One can make a case for offering pediatric transition care, but one can’t make a case for the way I see the evidence base being mis-represented. We have not followed kids for more than about 2 years from the initiation of cross sex hormones, and we have not attempted to tease out the effects of behavioral health interventions - often provided concurrently - from medical transition. Among other issues. Patients and their families have a right to know this. But we are not even being honest about this within the medical community, let alone counseling families accurately.